Resources

Netflix Resources

• Sustainable Entertainment Alliance: Introduction
• Green Production Guide: Videos and case studies
• USC Norman Lear Center Media Impact Project: Climate Silence in TV and Film
• Universal Filmed Entertainment Group: A sustainability program from script to screen
• Scoring stories’ climate content: The Climate Reality Check

Host and Guest

Climate Rising Host: Professor Mike Toffel, Faculty Chair, Business & Environment Initiative (LinkedIn)

Guest: Sam Read, Executive Director, Sustainable Entertainment Alliance (LinkedIn)

Transcript

Editor’s Note: The following was prepared by a machine algorithm, and may not perfectly reflect the audio file of the interview.

Mike Toffel:

Sam, thank you so much for joining us here on Climate Rising.

Sam Read:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Mike Toffel:

So let's begin by just asking you to give us your journey on how you arrived in the entertainment industry working on climate change.

Sam Read:

Yeah, you know, I've spent my career working on a variety of social impact and organizing work. You know, I've worked on political campaigns, I've worked on policy, I've worked on advocacy efforts, but through it all I've done a lot of work with coalitions. So I used to work for the People's Climate Movement, coalition of environmental groups, labor unions, and social justice groups who were mobilizing people for climate action. So I've got a lot of experience working across diverse groups of stakeholders and unifying them around a common objective. And I'm lucky enough to get to do that work now with this incredible group of entertainment industry leaders through the Sustainable Entertainment Alliance.

Mike Toffel:

Great, let's talk a little bit about the Sustainable Entertainment Alliance. What inspired its creation? How big is it? Who's part of it? Just a quick intro, and we'll, of course, dive more deeply into it.

Sam Read:

Totally. So the Sustainable Entertainment Alliance is a consortium of leading studios and streamers and industry leaders that are working to support the film and television industry in its efforts to be more sustainable.

Our members include A24, Amazon, Disney, Fox, NBC, Netflix, Paramount, Sony, Warner Brothers, Village Roadshow and others. So this great breadth of the industry that we have involved and the initiative has been going on in some form or another for over a decade and until recently was known as the Sustainable Production Alliance.

So it was born out of a collaboration between leading studios and the Producers Guild and others who have been working for years to highlight the best practices in sustainable production and spur industry engagement and increasingly to, you know, understand how to best represent the realities of climate change and sustainability on screen.

So I have the pleasure of getting to work with representatives from our member companies and with our partners across the industry and our team here at the Alliance and there's this really great collaborative spirit to it which makes the work a lot of fun.

Mike Toffel:

Great. Now you're a fairly lean team, right, from your side, the Sustainable Entertainment Alliance itself.

Sam Read:

Yeah, our core team is pretty lean, small but mighty. we have one of the incredible things about the work that we do with our members is we get a lot of time and energy and effort from people who work in sustainability across our membership. So while our core team that is specific to the Alliance is small, we have this great collaborative group of people that are really invested in this work.

Mike Toffel:

Got it. And who from these organizations who are members, who actually engage with you? Is this with their sustainability teams or with their production teams or their storytelling teams? Or does it depend on the topic you're talking about in a given day?

Sam Read:

Yeah, I would say it depends on the topic. I mean, it's generally coming from the sustainability teams at these companies, but I think it depends on the topic and it depends on what we're working on. So if we're talking about how climate stories show up on screen, there might be more participation from creative executives at our member companies or folks who work with the content development process. If we're talking about the best way to use EVs on set, there might be someone from the transport team or production team in addition to the sustainability representatives, our members. it's really I would say our core membership is the sustainability folks and leaders at these different organizations, but the companies themselves are our members. So we get to work with this really great cross -section of the industry.

Mike Toffel:

Got it. And what was the impetus for its creation?

Sam Read:

Yeah, mean, you know, its creation predates me, but it started just from this place of...dedicated people who were passionate about this, who knew that there was work to be done to make this industry more sustainable and to play our part in the transition to a clean energy future. So started seeing, okay, what can we do on productions? How can we reduce our environmental footprint on this? What are you, and then this collaborative aspect of, okay, we're doing this at Studio X. How are you guys approaching this at Studio Y? What are you doing? lessons have you learned? And I think both across the studios, and the production companies that make the content, also incredible efforts from the producers' guild and producers who lead this green work and they have these inner guild alliances on sustainability. So we've seen this growing effort from across the industry for everyone to think about, how can I make my job be a part of the sustainability journey and help reduce this footprint of the industry as a whole?

Mike Toffel:

Got it. So information sharing, benchmarking, best practices.

Sam Read:

Yeah, there's a lot of that and I think there's also, you know, one of the founding projects of this organization is creating the Green Production Guide, which is a set of tools and resources that we offer for free to anyone in the industry to use to measure. We have a carbon calculator, so you can measure the carbon footprint of a production or tools on how to track your plywood to make sure that it's sustainable or tips and tricks and resources. So this creation of the Green Production Guide was this really great way for the industry to take the expertise that they were developing and turn it into tools and resources that anyone across the industry, whether you're making a student film or a small indie production, all the way up to a tent pole major franchise film can use.

Mike Toffel:

Got it. All right, terrific. So let's talk about in our conversation, the storytelling aspect, and then later on we'll talk about the production process piece. So it seems to me like the biggest opportunity that studios have to address climate change is in the stories that they tell or don't tell and how they tell it. And so that's all about the storytelling side. So what's your sense of the current state of climate storytelling in the production of TV shows and movies and documentaries?

Sam Read:

Yeah, totally. To get to your point about the importance of it, we think about two footprints in our work.

There's our carbon footprint, our environmental footprint that is specific to what are we emitting and how is our waste management processes and tactically, how are we doing this? But there's also what we talk about as our cultural footprint, right, which is the resonance that the stories and TV shows and films that get out in the world and how they connect with audiences. The state of that and how to do that is a lot of what we look at the Alliance. We on the creative side want to lift up resources and support for the creatives who want to tell these stories that engage with climate change and sustainability.

And we also work to understand audience demand and engagement with these stories and work with our members to explore the role that storytelling can play in supporting sustainability. I think the case for why stories that engage with climate change and sustainability can be important is really clear. There was a great book that came out last year called You Are What You Watch by Walter Hickey that really explores the power of film and television and the impact, you know, physically, geopolitically, culturally that it can have on viewers.

So we know that these stories can be really important in how people perceive the world and engage with, you know, issues. But understanding what makes these stories successful is where there's a lot of room for us to explore. And I think that's an important distinction because even if your goal, you know, even if it was possible to write the perfect movie or television show that really nailed the story of climate change, you know, even if that was possible, you'd still need people to show up and watch it and look if there was some magic answer of do this and your show will be a hit, know I think everyone would be doing it. So obviously it's an art more than a science. But there's definitely an opportunity to better understand things like the business opportunities around sustainable storytelling. How does that reflect audience interest and how does it open up doors for things like brand partnerships and subscriber retention and so on and You know, we've seen the fossil fuel industry over the years invest in product placement. The natural gas industry supporting Julia Child and trying to get people to cook on gas stoves back into the day all through today. So we know it works and would like to see more of that with clean energy and technology.

And I would stress, you know, the big picture that this is first and foremost a creative industry. So we are working with our members to understand how these stories can connect with audiences, but that work is nothing without the incredible stories themselves. And I think we've seen really incredible examples of creatives doing just that, exploring through the stories they tell, how people are dealing with climate change, the opportunities that come with a sustainable future, the challenges communities are facing along the way. We've seen it across genres, from quiet indies to raunchy comedies and blockbuster entertainment. And we also see it show up in different ways. We see it show up as the central premise of a story where it's really focused on climate change or an allegory for it. We've seen it as a catalyst for individual storylines. And you can see it just as the background and the set dressing and the choices that they're making on set.

So I would say there's this really interesting and I would say growing awareness of it within the industry and thinking about how do we best represent this and how do we engage with it. And we work to make sure that people are aware of the resources out there and the lessons learned from it. And so there are incredible organizations out there with resources for storytellers who want to explore the issue. Nonprofits like NRDC's Rewrite the Future program or Good Energy or Rare or the Hollywood Climate Summit. The guilds have their incredible inter -guild sustainability program supporting their members. There are groups in the UK like Albert or Climate Spring. But I think this is a global issue that affects pretty much everyone on earth in some way or another. So there is a ton to explore creatively an engaging with how characters are dealing with this in their everyday life.

Mike Toffel:

Great, so let's dive into each of these sides. I think there's a demand story here and a supply story here. And maybe if you have examples of each, that'd be helpful. Let's start with the demand side. So who is seeking more climate content or more accurate climate content in the storyteller? So these coming from producers, writers, consumers, who there's latent consumer demand.

So if you can just talk about a few examples, and I'm sure there's an all of the above kind of response to this question, but let's dig in a little more sharply and just talk about some examples, whether they're anonymized or not is up to you, of where some of this demand is coming from.

Sam Read:

Yeah, and not to cop out of the answer, but I think it is coming from different angles in different contexts. So there is definitely creative talent that is really involved with this and writers and showrunners and directors and producers who are saying, you know, I have a story that I want to tell and I'm going to explore climate and environmental issues through that. I think if you look at something, you know, a TV show that I'm trying to think of a good example here.I would say, okay, so the latest season of True Detective that came out on HBO, Night Country, it's a detective show and it's a genre show about cops investigating crimes, but it is also about the impact that mining has had on a community in Alaska and the changing climate and how residents are dealing with it. So I think we see from a creative angle, folks really exploring, okay, this is an issue that we're all dealing with in our everyday lives. So if my story is set in the present and set in this world, like how is it impacting my characters?And would say the bulk of it is greater lead of writers and directors and showrunners thinking, okay, this is an issue that's important to me, that would be important to my characters, how am I representing it? And I think increasingly, and something that we work on is helping the studios and the business side understand the demand for it. So doing research into audience demand and what audiences want to see and which of these stories connect with it. I think different studios have different approaches to their development process. So there's no one way to pinpoint it. But if you look at something like NBC Universal's Greener Light program, where they've implemented a program of reviewing and seeing where are their opportunities for incorporating climate and sustainability themes, or some of the other companies who approach this internally and try and figure out how to best make these stories land with audiences.

Mike Toffel:

Great. Now you mentioned the role of showrunner. For those not familiar with how the entertainment industry works, what is that role?

Sam Read:

Yeah, so I mean, on a TV show, think of a show runner as the person in charge. So they're usually a lead writer, but also helping to oversee the whole production of the show and the development of it. So folks who have the creative lead on a show and figuring out how they want to implement climate within that.

Mike Toffel:

So they really have the authority to decide what goes in and what and how to shape the story.

Sam Read:

Yeah, and I think, you know, with all things in this industry, it is a creative led industry where the people who are telling the stories are the leads on it and there's opportunities for studios and production companies and the business side to interact with that. But the storytellers are the strength of this industry and I think the strength of how we incorporate climate and sustainability themes into this.

Mike Toffel:

Great. so that's the demand side. Now let's talk about the supply side. You had mentioned a moment ago some of the resources you connect them with coming from different organizations. So it's a little bit different than all sitting in a room talking about how did you electrify your production process, which we'll talk about again in a minute when we talk about the production process.

Here, tell us a little bit about the dialogue that comes about. So someone says, I'm writing a show about a mining town, and I want to make sure I characterize the environment and climate and maybe the regulatory and market pressures accurately. They pose that question to you or to an open forum or how do you then work to connect them with resources to supply the information they're seeking?

Sam Read: (14:22)

Yeah, totally. And I would say, you know, we don't have a role, you know, I'm not in the writer's room. We're not directly engaging with specific productions in our role as a collaboration. But there are these great resources for groups. So you look at someone like NRDC's Rewrite the Future program where they, you know, take the scientific and expertise within NRDC and the access to scientists and policy experts that they have. And they also have a really great creative team, they, know, a production might come to them and say, hey, we've got this script, how can we incorporate climate or environmental themes? And they work with them to say, okay, you're set in this state, in this location, here's how climate is affecting them today, and here's how your story might address that, or how your character might interact with that. So there's a bunch of resources like that that get connected directly to the creative teams, and there's support through that. So our role in that is just lifting those resources up and making sure folks know about them. And we've been working on a very cool reel with NRDC that looks at examples of climate and sustainability storytelling in blockbuster entertainment and projects that have been both creatively and commercially successful while engaging with climate and the environment. So I think in trying to make the case that you can do this and it can be successful and it doesn't have to be, and I have no disrespect, but it doesn't have to be a sad documentary about the impact of climate change, but it can be how your character is engaging with it generally - when you are writing a sitcom, instead of making the father a plumber, can you make the father a solar panel technician? There are ways to take existing storylines and adapt them to make sure that we're incorporating climate and sustainability into it.

Mike Toffel:

Yeah, for sure there's a role for documentaries and telling people about, you know, what is underappreciated about the future of climate change. But I think there's so much power, as you mentioned, in incorporating this in the everyday, showing people who might not be exposed to the energy transition example you gave or to folks who are working to bolster resilience in cities or other wide array of topics that we talk about on this show, exposing folks to that in their homes while they're watching something where they're not seeking climate information, it just happens to be part of the story in even subtle ways sometimes.

Sam Read:

Yeah, no, exactly. And I think these stories are at their best when they are authentic to the story that's being told and to the characters. stepping out of sustainability for a moment, but people use Will and Grace a lot as an example of the cultural power that this industry can have on important issues, given the role that show played in changing support for gay marriage and LGBT rights. know, President Biden himself credited it with changing his thinking on the issue. So it undeniably had this positive impact, but it's not like it's set out at the beginning of the show and said, our goal is to change cultural attitudes. But it was able to have that impact because it was tightly made, was funny and reached like 20 million viewers an episode at its peak.So it was a compelling and hilarious show that a lot of people saw and identified with and built relationships with the characters and thus had their minds opened. So to me, success with climate and sustainability storytelling isn't, did I drop the perfect line that's going to convince my climate denier uncle to change his mind, but more, did you artistically explore how your characters and your story would be affected by and engage with our changing climate? And I think that's better storytelling and creates a better show and film, but also does a better job of opening people's minds to this transition that we're all in.

Mike Toffel:

Yeah, the Will and Grace example is a great one. So in the context of climate, are there some go -to examples that you think are doing a good job of bringing this into the storytelling, bringing climate into the storytelling process?

Sam Read:

Yeah, mean, you know, like I said, I think that my favorite versions of these are ones that are really aligned with the show itself and not stretching to just incorporate climate for the sake of it. So an example that's on top of my mind, because I'm watching it currently and it's super recent, is the show Industry. So it's generally a show about young traders at an investment bank in London getting into all sorts of professional and personal trouble. But in the most recent season, in season three, there's a whole storyline about ESG and social impact investing. And they're taking a renewable energy company public and the characters literally go to cop during an episode.So it's this really cool look in a way that I don't even know if the writers did this with explicit intention, but it really explores how these characters would be authentically engaging with this issue. And granted, you know, many of these characters are not of high moral standing, so I think it's safe to say that their views on climate change are not aligned with mine. But that's not the point. The point is it really creatively examines some thorny questions about the clean energy transition in a way that feels true to the characters and true to the larger story they're telling.

And I think that's really cool and great example of how you can do this in a way that you don't have to change your story or make your story about climate change but just this is the world that we are living in is climate change is an issue and it is affecting all of us across the world in different ways and there's lots of creative opportunities for exploring those stories.

Mike Toffel:

Great, so that's industry, you said, the show. And what network is that on?

Sam Read:

Yeah. That's my HBO.

Mike Toffel:

on HBO. Any other examples come to mind?

Sam Read:

You know, I have been increasingly interested in ways that it shows up in background settings. So I think, you know, seeing shows, I'm thinking of the show Wednesday on Netflix or sex education, or there's a lot of shows dealing with high schoolers and kids in school who for them, this is, you know, a part of their life is climate anxiety and thinking about it and thinking about their role in it. So it does not affect the main storyline, but it is something that these characters reference and these characters engage with because they're living in the same world we're living in. So I think that, and especially the outh angle, we know climate anxiety is an issue among youth and there's this feeling of dread. So shows that address that and deal with kids going through stressful things, but climate is one of them, I think are really compelling.

Mike Toffel:

Great. Anything else on the storytelling side of the house here before we shift over to the production process discussion?

Sam Read:

No, just that I think there's, you know, we're trying to learn more as we go, but there's lots more to be uncovered about what connects with audiences and how these stories can be successful. But I think there is this growing energy around the opportunities here, both for compelling stories and stories that matter.

Mike Toffel:

You'd mentioned earlier that the Sustainable Entertainment Alliance's genesis was on the production side. So let's dive into the production side, the idea where you're trying to reduce the environmental impact of the production process itself. So first, let's just start from your perspective. What are the biggest impacts that need to get mitigated when it comes to the production of a TV show or a movie?

Sam Read:

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that we do as a coalition is we publish an industry benchmarking report. We published one a couple of years ago and have a new one coming out later this year that looks at the average emissions for different types of film, whether that's a tent pole movie or a half hour unscripted show. But from that, we can see the biggest sources of emissions from film and television productions. And a big piece of that usually somewhere around 50 percent is fuel. So that comes from two main areas. That's transportation.So the cars and trucks that get driven to and from and on productions and moving things around and people around, but also from diesel generators that have been used as a mobile power source on film sets for decades. And there's a lot of familiarity with them on productions, but we also know they emit diesel fumes and are not great. So I'd say those are two areas where there's a lot of work to be done, but we're also seeing a lot of innovation underway across the industry to address it.

We talk with our members a lot around of how they're using clean mobile power on sets and the opportunities and challenges for batteries as replacements for diesel generators, what they're learning, how they're adapting them, how they're implementing it, what the response from the crew is. Or we talk about the use of electrical vehicles on set, both for passenger transport and for trucks. How do you manage charging? How are you managing your fleet, et cetera? So I would say the fuel is definitely, I would say, the biggest source of emissions in terms of other tricky areas. I would say one thing that is specific to this industry is just, you know, the construction of sets. These people are literally world building for film and television and that means materials. So we do work looking at what are materials that have lower impact? How can we increase circularity? How can we increase waste reduction? What are opportunities for making that process less resource intensive?

Mike Toffel:

Got it. And what are some best practices that you think would be surprising to folks to learn, they're doing that?

Sam Read:

Yeah, I mean, I think that the most exciting work generally is around the clean mobile power work. There's this ubiquity of diesel generators on sets around but we know from the work that we've seen that a battery can replace them and there are we have seen success with production shifting to batteries and there's you know there's obviously the emissions benefits of you're not pumping out diesel fumes but there's also really great benefits for the crew and for the set that come along with it so one is that they're a lot quieter so from a sound perspective which is really important in the filming process you're not dealing with this constant putt -putt of diesel generators in the background. It's just a quiet battery, you know, which means you can have more access to different locations because there might be locations where you're not allowed to have diesel generators and so it makes it hard to shoot there without mobile power. You can set the batteries up closer to set because there's not the sound so that means there's less cable that has to be laid and these less, you know, heavy generators being moved around and people breathing in the fumes. So there's all these ancillary benefits that go beyond just the emissions reduction that have a lot of value that have been really cool to see and really interesting to see what different folks on a set are finding is the highest value from them.

Mike Toffel:

Got it. And so when you do all the math, does it turn out that these programs that you're seeing to decarbonize the production process, are they adding much cost? Is this a negligible amount? Is this a substantial investment? Is it, in some cases, saving money?

Sam Read:

Yeah, I mean, I would say it depends on a lot of factors. It's certainly the cost is a concern in the area in terms of where we see these things being sticky and trying to overcome challenges. As with many industries trying to go through this transition, we're facing the same challenges. It's supply, it's cost, and it's education. You want a world where there's robust access to the clean technology that meets the technical specs and logistical needs of our industry. You want the cost of it to be viable for productions of all sizes, which can definitely be challenging with new technology. But we are seeing those costs come down and seeing productions get creative with how to save money on them. So I think that's a real opportunity.And you want the right stakeholders across the industry to be bought in on it and understand how to get the most out of it. So that's another thing that we are increasingly focused on is how are we working with the guilds and the unions on education and awareness and making sure folks know how these technologies work and what the benefits are and how to get the most out of them. So those are the main challenges that we're working to overcome and that our members are working on innovating on set to overcome.

Mike Toffel:

Great. So without calling out any specific companies, I'm sure you've observed some companies are more likely to engage in these practices, both on the storytelling side and production side, and others less so. And I wonder if you've thought about characterizing the difference between those types of organizations. Does it have to do with their ownership structure or whether they have a chief sustainability officer who has enough clout to try and get the showrunners to think more about this, or if there's just cultural differences between organizations, if there's west coast versus other places where these activities are actually going on.

Sam Read:

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I have a compelling answer for that, mostly because the folks that I work with from across our membership are all equally passionate and committed. So I think in some sense, as with any industry, there are leadership aspects to it where the tone is set from the top of where to prioritize and where costs are and all of that piece of it.But I think there's this real passion from the members that sit in our coalition and that participate in our working groups and share resources and all of that. There's this definite shared commitment. So I don't know that there's a structural difference between who's leading the charge and who's bringing up the rear, but I think we're all pulling in this right direction. And I hope to see more and continuing leadership from the industry to hot spotlight where we're seeing successes and where there are challenges structurally that we can overcome together.

Mike Toffel:

So we've been talking mostly in the US context with US companies being the members. Is the work that you're primarily focused on US production and US -based storytelling, or does it also include an international footprint as well?

Sam Read:

Yeah, our members are for the most part headquartered in the United States, but they're global companies. Disney shoots globally, Sony shoots globally, Netflix shoots globally. They all, for the most part, shoot globally. So there's definitely, because they're headquartered here and most of the staff is here, there is definitely a focus on the US and the productions in our own backyard, also trying to make sure and increasingly something that we're working on is working with folks like Albert, who's the UK version of this, an industry stakeholder group working on sustainability. So there are opportunities for us to work with folks like that and others globally to align on the methodology and the best practices. So it's one of those, we're headquartered in the US, but because so many of our members are global companies that have global productions, it's an issue for us across the world in all different regions and I think they all face different challenges but there's definitely a commitment to lifting up the sustainability efforts across the globe.

Mike Toffel:

So let's talk about impact, which I think is difficult to measure. And you talked about earlier on, like there's the carbon footprint, which is the production process element, and then the cultural footprint. We've talked many times in episodes prior to this on the show about how companies are assessing their carbon footprint, but we haven't ever talked about cultural footprint. So how does one go about measuring, or at least conceptually measuring, this cultural footprint and how do you measure progress as to whether the cultural footprint, I guess in this case, would be expanding rather than contracting.

Sam Read:

Yeah, that is the tricky question. So I don't know that we've solved it yet, but it is definitely a thing that we explore and are trying to figure out from the business perspective and part of it is from the impact perspective. From the business perspective, it's a little bit more straightforward in that we want shows and movies that are connecting with audiences and being successful and enabling this business to continue to thrive. So it is easy to look at metrics from that perspective. But I think on that the impact side of things towards the cultural footprint of it all, that's where there's this huge opportunity, I think, for more research and more investment in understanding what is connecting with audiences, how are they connecting with it, which genres are more effective. Like all of that is things that are ripe for looking into. And there's been some research that has been really great on it, but I think opportunities for even more, because until we understand, you know, what matters and what is breaking through to people and what are they taking away from it, it's hard to quantify. And so we're able in retrospect to see shifts like with Will and Grace, you can look at public opinion on gay marriage over time and how it corresponds with that show. It's this, you know, the benefit of climate change from a storytelling perspective in that it intersects with lives in so many ways and in so many different things. I think also one of the really challenging things for measuring it from an impact perspective is that what would it mean to address climate change. Like there are 18 million different ways that someone can do that and whether that's a personal behavior that you're taking into your own life to be more sustainable or policy that you're advocating for or grid transmission lines becoming stronger or zoning requirements changing. Like there are any number of things that can interact with the climate crisis and be productive towards solving it.

But with such a broad remit, it's hard to say, well, we did that and that changed because of that. So I think for us, we focus on the creative side of it, of how to tell great stories and how to reflect this audience demand for stories that grapple with the world that we're all living in. And from a business perspective, how to make sure that those stories are reaching audiences and as broad of an audience as possible.

Mike Toffel:

Is anyone tracking, it sounds like it wouldn't be your organization, but is anyone else tracking the, even the utterances of some of these terms in shows that appear on prime time or in movies?

Sam Read:

Yeah, and there have been a handful of really compelling reports that have come out. USC does a lot of research in this. They did a project with Good Energy looking at utterances of climate change in scripted television and things like that, which I think are a great first step. But again, getting to the complexity of climate change.

You could talk about all sorts of things without saying the word climate change. Or, you know, if you think about a movie like Don't Look Up, or even a movie like Dune or Avatar, those are big budget features that are talking about resource extraction and its impact on communities and how, you know, environmental practices interact with people's lives. But it's set on foreign planets or it doesn't mention climate change and it's about an asteroid. Like there is an allegorical aspect to it that you wouldn't be able to measure from a keyword search. So that's where I think this is really interesting, is there are so many different ways that these stories can connect with people and can make them think about climate and sustainability without having to say, this is a climate movie. So it's both creatively open, but also makes it really hard to research.

Mike Toffel:

Yeah, no, that's right. I sympathize with the challenge here. So USC meaning University of Southern California.

Sam Read: (34:17)

Yeah Yeah.Yeah, definitely. And I would say one of the things that we talk about is what is the right framework to think about what qualifies as climate storytelling to the point earlier, like don't look up. I would consider climate storytelling despite the fact that it's about an asteroid and not about climate change. But is a sitcom where the dad is a solar technician. Is that climate storytelling? Because it's showing green jobs and bringing that to light. But there's not really a clear definition of it, which is, think, is an area of opportunity for us and for our partners in the industry. The folks at Good Energy put out something earlier this year that they call the, I think, the Climate Reality Check, which i a Bechdel test for climate. So for stories that take place now, do characters acknowledge climate change? And does it interact with their lives? So I think there are this growing approach to how are we measuring this, how are we defining it, that I hope to see really continue.

Mike Toffel:

Yeah, super. Sounds really interesting. So one of the final questions I often ask our guests is for advice. So fascinating what's going on in the industry now, and you're at the center of convenings and collaborations about storytelling and reducing the carbon footprint and more broadly, the environmental footprint of the production process. For those listeners who want to get into this game in the entertainment industry in particular, what advice do you have? Where should they get started? What resources should they consult?

Sam Read:

Yeah, I mean, I look, can't speak to how to get into the film and television game. Do not send me your spec scripts. I cannot do anything helpful with them. But on the sustainability side, I think there's lots of opportunities. There's definitely a growing need for more sustainability expertise on productions. And we've seen more and more productions using sustainability coordinators or eco advisors and folks that can be on set ensuring that sustainable practices are available and are followed.

And the best advice I can give is just bring creativity and curiosity to this. There's so much that we're trying to do, but so many challenges that are faced. And so we are still very much learning as an industry the best way to do these things and overcome these challenges. But this is also historically a very innovative industry across all types of technologies. So I don't doubt that we can do that, but it's going to take more people bring their best thinking to it of, what's a new way of trying to do this process that might be less energy intensive or what's a way that we can reuse this material on another production.

So I think in terms of resources, you know, on the Green Production Guide, if you go to greenproductionguide.com, there's all sorts of resources on tools, you know, a carbon calculator, but also a best practices checklist to take in as you're going through a production to see, okay, where can we make more sustainable choices and resources like that. There are great groups like the Green Film School Alliance that is working across film schools to try and bring sustainability into those students and make them see from the get -go how it can be incorporated into the making of film and TV.

So a lot of great resources on that, but I think in general just this approach of understanding that these are technical and technological challenges on the production side and creative story challenges on the other side, but both of them require this curiosity and a willingness to do things differently than they've been done before and a creativity to try and, you know, tackle this all.

Mike Toffel: (38:03)

Great. Now, I would be remiss if I also didn't ask you. So your latest, in your current role, it's the latest iteration of your working on movements and collaborations. just, in a way, it happens to be the entertainment industry. You've worked in other industries as well. For those interested in that type of role, to be part of creating a cultural movement, whether it be political or in a variety of different industries or on different social topics related to environment or climate, how do you advise people wanting to do that type of work?

Sam Read: (38:43)

Yeah, I mean that is where to start. I think there's, know... in that kind of work, it's really important to understand your stakeholders and where they're coming from, both at the individual level and at the entity level behind them. So I think that's been a key learning and how to navigate coalitions and collaborative groups and strategic partnerships in general is that you both need to understand where the individual person you're dealing with is coming from on an issue and what their needs are, what they're passionate about, where they're less passionate, but also understanding, you know, what company are they working for, organization are they representing, and what are that company or organization's needs.

So really being able to map out, this is what is important to this person, and this is what is important to the entity behind them, and understanding that to be able to piece together how people might collaborate on things. And I think being really clear about what's important and what can be deprioritized, because I think it is more effective to say, okay, here are the five areas of really strong overlap we've got on a key issue that we're passionate about. We're going to focus on those areas where we're already aligned, rather than take the five small areas where we have differences of opinion and spend all our time hashing out those differences.

So being able to say, okay, these are the priorities for the movement and this is what needs to happen in this industry or in this movement or in this campaign, whatever it might be, and say, okay, how are we getting alignment towards that and focusing on that rather than trying to make everything perfect all the time? Because people are individuals and companies and organizations are individuals and have these different approaches and different priorities. So being able to keep everyone focused on the big picture is both the challenge and the fun part.

Mike Toffel: (40:21)

o it sounds like negotiation, but negotiation with a bunch of parties at the same time.

Sam Read: (40:41)

Yeah, yeah. And that's where I think like keeping an emphasis on the North Star and on the big picture of what we're trying to accomplish can help smooth over some of those smaller differences or diplomatic challenges where, yes, we might agree on this wording in this document, but we're very much agreeing on what we're trying to accomplish overall. So how can we move forward in a way that's going to allow us to meet that greater goal?

Mike Toffel: (41:05)

Great. Well, Sam, it's been a really interesting conversation about how the Sustainable Entertainment Alliance is both trying to bring climate into the storytelling of your members as well as greening the production processes.

So thank you so much for spending time with us here on Climate Rising.

Sam Read: (41:22)

Thank you so much for having me.